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Can we think poorly of anyone if nothing is in anyone's control because we're all deterministic machines? Kevin was bad from infancy. By Elyse Wanshel. Yes and no. If we had the same narrative style from a different character and knew their innermost thoughts, would we place more responsibility on them? I do think he's evil, but what made him that way is intriguing. The Impossible Question of ‘We Need to Talk About Kevin’: Nature or Nurture? Psychoanalysis is a weekly series on the Consequence Podcast Network that takes an in-depth look at a mental health topic through the lens of horror. — Can You Call a 9-Year-Old a Psychopath? Our therapist called this "parent shopping". We also need to talk about Eva, the amount of emotional labor placed on mothers, and the complex decision to have children. I am not a parent (nor do I want to be one) so I cannot speak from experience. By Lionel Shriver. I saw another person assess Eva as being the only one who never underestimated Kevin. He thought he knew. 2 - does Eva carry most of the blame because her abuse towards Kevin and her distinct lack of maternal attachment to Kevin, when we know she has the capacity for it because of how she treats her daughter? The film moves without any pattern between past, present and who knows when. This is the theme song for the film "We Need to Talk About Kevin," written and performed by Randy Newman*. Previous Next . I think Kevin was both born and made, but the degree of which is what I really enjoy discussing. The very ending of the book is odd after she visits Kevin in prison, do you agree? We Need to Talk About Kevin, Lionel Shriver We Need to Talk About Kevin is a 2003 novel by Lionel Shriver, It is written from the first person perspective of the teenage killer's mother, Eva Khatchadourian, and documents her attempt to come to terms with her son Kevin and the murders he committed, as told in a series of letters from Eva to her husband. We … Franklin (though shown to be a cuddly guy in the movie) didn't see Kevin as he really was and wanted Kevin to be different, looking for his ideal son. That pretty much the whole time she is trying to convince herself that Kevin was born that way, and at the very end she recognizes her blame and tries to redeem herself by changing her approach in her relationship with her son. in regards to the percentage of responsibility each character has for Kevin's massacre. We Need to Talk About Kevin is a 2011 psychological thriller drama film directed by Lynne Ramsay.The screenplay, written by Ramsay and Rory Stewart Kinnear, was based on the 2003 novel of the same name by Lionel Shriver.A long process of development and financing began in 2005, with filming commencing in … We need to talk about Kevin's lack of empathy The psychopathic son in Lionel Shriver's novel and Lynne Ramsay's film isn't evil – but has zero empathy Ezra Miller and Tilda Swinton in We Need … We Need to Talk About Kevin is a 2003 novel by Lionel Shriver, published by Serpent's Tail, about a fictional school massacre. The question about nature vs. nurture has gone on for a long time, and I think killers are both born and made. I don't like Eva, but I think Shriver chose her for the narrative because you get to see how much of her abuse does have influence, but also how ridiculous the level of blame by the locals is as well. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. (4.19) This quote early in the book is a good introduction to the reasons for blame. Answered Questions (17) I only saw the movie and I exonerate his mother completely of any fault. I knew he didn't. It is written from the first person perspective of the teenage killer's mother, Eva Khatchadourian, and documents her attempt to come to terms with her son Kevin and the murders he committed, as told in a series of letters from Eva to her husband. She knew what he was and everyone else denied it or couldn't see through it. One of the hardest things was that nobody believed me about how mean he could be because he was absolutely charming to everyone else. I've both read the book and watched the movie so lemme know if I am mixing them up. We Need to Talk About Kevin movie tie-in A Novel download reddit audiobook We Need to Talk About Kevin movie tie-in A Novel audiobook Ik this is an old comment, but how are things now with the child? Furthermore, if one doesn't bond with your child, for whatever reason, can they fake it? The degree to which is what I find really interesting. Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? Mike breaks down the many different diagnoses related to Kevin’s behavior from Conduct Disorder to Antisocial Personality Disorder and the difficulty in accurately diagnosing them. To ask other readers questions about We Need to Talk About Kevin, please sign up. 2 - does Eva carry most of the blame because her abuse towards Kevin and her distinct lack of maternal attachment to Kevin, when we know she has the capacity for it because of how she treats her daughter? Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? But ultimately it’s Kevin’s fault. The school disagreed and required me to have him tested. In the novel, he had kept a photo of her which she assumed he had torn to shreds. A suspenseful and gripping psychological thriller, Lynne Ramsay’s WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN explores the fractious relationship between a mother and her… It has been a while since I read this book but it really stuck with me. I think Kevin was simply born that way. This question was recently posed to Reddit users, and some of the results were a little surprising. Implausible Psycho: “We Need to Talk About Kevin”, ‘We Need to Talk About Kevin’: When Art Confronts Tragedy, Beyond the Final Girl: We Need to Talk About Kevin and Motherhood in Horror. I don't think can blame Eva for her lack of maternal instinct, especially when she didn't want to have kids in the first place. One thing Eva finally does that she hasn't been able to do in the years after Kevin's crime is to ask him flat-out why he did it. Kevin definitely is extremely manipulative as a child, as he shows signs of psychopathy from very early on. "Now I'm not so sure," he says (28.52). Who says if he wasn't abused everything would be okay. Guilt and Blame. With Tilda Swinton, John C. Reilly, Ezra Miller, Jasper Newell. WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN Lionel Shriver. Press J to jump to the feed. His mom most likely had untreated post partum depression, which caused her to be unable to bond with Kevin. Is anyone else as mystified as I am as to Franklin's apparent blindness to his son's nature, or is Kevin supposed to be a true chameleon with his parents, like sociopaths are supposed to be able to be? Based on the best-selling novel of the same name, We Need to Talk About Kevin explores nature vs. nurture on a We Need to Talk About Kevin explores … Today, they’re kicking off December with their most taboo theme to date: Killer Kids. People always ignore the warning songs because it “won’t happen to them”. — The Impossible Question of ‘We Need to Talk About Kevin’: Nature or Nurture? Maybe the abuse push him to do this in an early age. The movie, based on a 2003 novel by Lionel Shriver, follows Eva (Tilda Swinton), the mother of Kevin … Very … I changed his school and his "ADD" disappeared. 6 - what role does the narrative style, that being Eva recounting Kevin's life and detailing her guilt and admitting everything she did wrong, influence our perception of Eva's responsibility? It’s a tough topic, but one we need to talk about and this week Jenn, Lara, and Mike tackle Lynne Ramsey’s psychological horror, We Need to Talk About Kevin. I'm the adoptive parent of a child who had attachment issues and it was so, so hard. I am not a parent, but I think parent's face so much guilt and worry obsessively over the things they did, so it could be possible that Eva's abuse was lesser than what she recounted it to be, or less impactful on Kevin. Eva and Franklin both had major short-comings as parents, and there was a definite lack of attention from the doctors as they are typically the ones we hope/expect to pick up on certain behaviors as well. Together, they’ll share their thoughts on Franklin (lots of thoughts there), praise Lynne Ramsey’s directorial style, and conclude with an uplifting moment of grounding and self-care. The novel is presented in a series of letters by Eva Katchadourian to her estranged husband Franklin, whom the reader is led to believe is reading these letters, however at the end of the … But Kevin is just getting started, and … He didn't bullshit her, but he manipulated everyone else. We're not sure what is more shocking, the violence of the crime, or the diabolically perfect way Kevin carried it out. If so, to what degree? Summary: We Need to Talk About Kevin explores the factious relationship between a mother and her evil son. Shriver won the prestigious Orange Prize in 2005, and the book was adapted to screen in 2011. — Implausible Psycho: “We Need to Talk About Kevin”, — ‘We Need to Talk About Kevin’: When Art Confronts Tragedy, — Beyond the Final Girl: We Need to Talk About Kevin and Motherhood in Horror, G Herbo Arrested for Stealing Identities to Pay for Vacation, Designer Puppies, More, Phoebe Bridgers Performs “Savior Complex” with a Piano Playing Ghost on Fallon: Watch, Ariel Pink Finds An Ally in Tucker Carlson, Saved By the Bell Star Dustin Diamond Diagnosed with Stage 4 Cancer, King Crimson's Robert Fripp and Wife Toyah Gift Us with Metallica's "Enter Sandman" on an Exercise Bike: Watch, WandaVision Promises a New Beginning for the Marvel Cinematic Universe: Review, Bandcamp Expands Its Vinyl Pressing Service to Accommodate 10,000 Indie Artists, Bookclub – Lionel Shriver – We Need to Talk About Kevin. Did they perhaps notice developmental issues and not inform his parents? […] So I blamed me, and he blamed me. Interesting. Tilda Swinton plays the mother, Eva, as she contends for 15 years with the increasing malevolence of her first-born child, Kevin. It is our intent and purpose to foster and encourage in-depth discussion about all things related to books, authors, genres, or publishing in a safe, supportive environment. Overall, I feel as though "We Need to Talk About Kevin" serves as a grim reminder of the consequences faced when damage is allowed to perpetuate (whether that be through personal infliction of it or lack of action to remedy it). I agree, everyone is to blame to varying degrees. I think We need to talk about Kevin is a great book for discussion, there are many points that could be pulled apart and looked at closely. We spent hours, over days, having tests done. Father's bond with their children typically months after they are born, so can we call a father evil if he hasn't yet bonded with his child? I think if it was told from a different POV we would probably assign blame a little differently, but no one else really ever picked up on the fact that Kevin was, for lack of better word, evil. The novel explores the subtle repercussions of maternal ambivalence, nature versus nurture, and the complexities of a mother … It has SPOILERS. Eva was definitely the only one who saw Kevin for who he really was. Ultimately the only person who is responsible for Kevin's actions is Kevin. Stream the episode above and subscribe to the series now. Reminded me of that old 1950's movie, The Bad Seed. reddit has ruined me towards the name kevin. On the note of "people are born this way", check out the documentary "Child of Rage" - it explores that further and is very interesting. I think the lesson here is that it is an incredibly complex issue without one sole person to blame. Counterpoint, $25 (416p) ISBN 1-58243-267-8. The school still wanted me to medicate him. We Need to Talk About Kevin Guilt and Blame. We cling to guidelines like the length of Tilda Swinton's hair to figure out where we are. It's a weird narrative though if you know anything about very selfish abusive people though, aren't they introspective and they lie to themselves so they never have to feel the guilt she did. If you're looking for help with a personal book recommendation, consult our Weekly Recommendation Thread, Suggested Reading page, or ask in r/suggestmeabook. Is that within their control? But people like this end up doing fucked up things at some point. You make me feel bad; feeling bad makes me mad; ergo, you make me mad. (*May have actually been written and performed by … Lol thank you, I think about the book a lot and the more I do the more layers come to mind. In MRI scans of a normal person vs someone with antisocial personality disorder, there are differences, so they can be born. We need to talk about it. I think everyone is to blame, but I can't assess the majority of where it lies. 5 - do you empathize with Eva? Kevin is the most guilty. What made it disturbing?" So, was the school responsible? I knew it was hyper-vigilance (feeling unsafe and therefore unable to concentrate because he was always scanning for threats). We Need to Talk About Kevin question 329 views. Lionel Shriver's We Need To Talk About Kevin is an elegant exploration of guilt, says Zoë Green Zoë Green Sat 26 Feb 2005 20.05 EST First published on Sat 26 Feb 2005 20.05 EST Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? Directed by Lynne Ramsay. Really interested to hear people's thoughts on this book. I don't think so, so I definitely agree with your points here. He’s the only one to blame. Franklin vs Eva Olga Jul 02, 2013 01:34PM. 1 - does Kevin have the majority of the blame because we are responsible for our actions? Kevin is a mass-murderer: a boy who, shortly before his 16th birthday, kills seven classmates, a teacher and a school cafeteria worker. Or nearly everybody is a bit to blame (except for little like his sister). 3 - what role does Franklin have, as he excused Kevin's behaviour and refused to believe Eva's concerns? The fact that nobody else clued in to Kevin's behavior is no surprise to me. Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram, — Bookclub – Lionel Shriver – We Need to Talk About Kevin. 1 - does Kevin have the majority of the blame because we are responsible for our actions? Also be sure to follow the Consequence Podcast Network for updates surrounding future programming. The first school made the problem worse, the second school was a miracle. Listen via Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Play | Stitcher | RSS. That also brings into question, in the movie more-so than in the book, if Kevin was really evil and Eva saw him for what he was, or if it was her perception and her projecting it on him made him who he was via a lack of parental bond. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. People are born this way. Lionel Shriver's 2003 best-seller, We Need To Talk About Kevin, chronicles a mother coming to terms with the heinous massacre her son committed in an upstate New York high school. “We need to talk about Kevin” ... We are willing to talk about it openly because it threatens the existence of the community itself. Kevin actually admired his mother a lot. The fact that she even thinks of herself as evil and that Kevin came out evil because she is evil is odd. Now she wakes up every morning and wishes she was in France!”. However, most serial killers had a fucked up childhood, so they are also made. 4 - what role do Kevin's doctors and teachers have? Editing assignment || sum up a feature movie in 10 minutes || Eva is incredibly unlikeable, but I do feel bad for her considering how much she lost in the end. Because there are people who are full-fledged psychopaths who don't kill or commit any crimes, despite it being their nature. If so, should they have? He didn't have ADD/ADHD. But are all killers in general made or born? Was Kevin truly born like that, or did Eva's fear and lack of attachment to him over the course of his life, until the very very end of the book, cause/exacerbate the lack of emotional bond that caused him to lack empathy for other people? I think you are on to something though with your point about the narrative style influencing our perception. We Need to Talk About Kevin expands to more theaters this week. In true "when your only tool is a hammer, ever problem looks like a nail", the school insisted he had ADD/ADHD. Word Count: 2350. It speaks to the worst human fear imaginable: that evil lurks, not in the outside world, but right at home. His mother thought he hated her but there were indications that he was dying for her attention and approval. This is a moderated subreddit. Within the genre of maternal horror, We Need to Talk About Kevin is a doozy. Is that within their control? There are a lot of layers to this, and I don't have a numerical answer. Can you fake that unconditional love and acceptance? 7 - In general, do you think in instances of atrocities like those portrayed in the book that the parents are more to blame than the children? My main question is regarding the relationship between Kevin … Kevin's mother struggles to love her strange child, despite the increasingly dangerous things he says and does as he grows up. Review by Peanutscratch ★★★½ . Directed by Lynne Ramsay, "We Need to Talk About Kevin" is fragments of time, jagged and confusing, lurching around inside her mind. Jim Spellman via Getty Images "What name is considered to be trashy in your country?" I think answering those can determine how much we can blame Eva-- or was he born like that? We need to talk about Kevin, By Lionel Shriver, Serpent's Tail, $22.95 Well before the post-September 11 security crackdown, there were metal-detectors in American schools. And this week when Reddit user zackjbryson asked, "What is the most disturbing book that you have ever read? It’s a tough topic, but one we need to talk about and this week Jenn, Lara, and Mike tackle Lynne Ramsey’s psychological horror, We Need to Talk About Kevin. We need to talk about "Kevin." I don't know about the blame part. The novel We Need to Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver is a chilling depiction of the actions of a son and the effects that it has on his mother, however under the surface, the true story depicts the dark side of motherhood. 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